(Summary/Translation) Macross Frontier Episode 12 Staff/Cast Commentary

With Nakajima Megumi, Kawamori Shouji and Kikuchi Yasuhito (the director).

kira!☆

Summary based on a little comment made at the end of this commentary: 12 was probably the most important episode of the series for Ranka, wasn’t it?

Note 1: This summary-translation is completely my own work. Please DO NOT reproduce it anywhere else, though you are quite welcome to link to it if you wish.

Note 2: Don’t take these as translations, but as paraphrases of what the commentators say. I simply don’t have the time to note down everything that they say. Furthermore, I’ve probably misheard or mistyped something somewhere, but well, sue me. (^_^)

[Megumi-chan begins this episode commentary the same way they did ep. 10…and it’s really somewhat amusing to hear Kawamori and Kikuchi try to join in!]

00:24
Nakajima: When we first received the script, this was all still in Japanese – it was only later that the Zentradi roles were set. But the Zentradi language, I heard that it’s something that you invented.
Kawamori: Well, yes, when we were making (the first series) 25 years ago, we thought it’d be boring if the Zentradi were just speaking Japanese or English like everyone else…
Nakajima: And, you invented a script too-
Kawamori: Yes, I managed to get a senior designer to help us create one.
Kikuchi: And at the time, you released something quite detailed
Kawamori: Ah, yes, we even made some (ink) stamps for it (Nakajima: wow!), like, as part of the merchandise line.
Nakajima: Hm…it’d be cool to have one of those.
Kawamori: Yeah. Well, I haven’t seen any around lately – like, where did we put them? – we’d have to reissue them.
Nakajima: During the recording session, it felt somewhat strange.
Kikuchi: Because it wasn’t Japanese that we were hearing, right?
Nakajima: Yes, that – it felt like I’d come to the wrong place.
Kawamori: Well, I hadn’t been about to complete the translation in time to put it in the script – I was working on it all the way up til the day of the recording itself.
Kikuchi: at the studio
Nakajima: but I had a chat with Konishi (Ozma), and he said that it reminded him of the movie (probably DYRL?)-
Kikuchi: Ah, so he knew about it?
Kawamori: We have to be thankful to him then.
Nakajima: and that ‘it’s like we’re not doing Frontier anymore’. It’s not something we thought would be in Frontier.
Kawamori: Ah, true true. You could say that the Zentradi were included here so that we could do “Interstellar Flight” (Seikan Hikou)
Nakajima: Wait, really?
Kikuchi: Yup, because we needed a crowd that would really get into it.
Nakajima: so, because of “Interstellar Flight”
Kawamori: The only audience that would give such a huge reaction to “Interstellar Flight” would be a Zentradi one. (laughter)
Nakajima: Ah, now that you mention it.
Kikuchi: They’re all pop music fans, after all.
Nakajima: The Zentradi, you mean? (yup yup) Some of them may even get nosebleeds. (yup yup) But wow…just so that you could use that song.
Kawamori: And of course the Vajra can’t react to Ranka’s song this early.
Nakajima: Ah, so there was that reason too!
Kikuchi: After all, as number one fans [of pop, I’m guessing -karice], they have to react.
Nakajima: But I really could not imagine when “Interstellar Flight” would be used at all.
Kawamori: I must confess, when I first heard the demo, I just kept repeating the “kira!☆” part.
Nakajima: But it wasn’t actually “kira!☆” at first, was it? At first, it was part of the music, so I practiced singing it, “la-la-la”. So I was surprised that I ended up having to say “Kira”.
Kawamori: But it worked out well, didn’t it?
Nakajima: True true.
Kawamori: it ended up have a big impact.
Kikuchi: And Kanno really is amazing, don’t you think? (Nakajima: absolutely amazing). And I really had no idea how you’d add a “kira!☆” into a dance.
Kawamori: We ended up asking them to keep redoing it, like, three times, because it was still very ‘weak’.
Nakajima: Whaaa…really?!
Kikuchi: like, it was very smooth at one stage.
Nakajima: I had no idea…’smooth’?
Kawamori: like, it just wasn’t enough
Kikuchi: it didn’t pack enough of a punch
Nakajima: You mean, rather than a signature pose, how to do it as part of the dance choreography?
Kawamori: That’s right. The poses have all been right so far, non?
Nakajima: Hm…and well, I didn’t know, but someone told me, that internationally, that sign means “I love you”
Kawamori: really? That was a complete coincidence.
Nakajima: I had no idea myself, so I was rather moved when I found out.
Kawamori: ah, I see. ‘But of course I knew it right from the word go’ (raucous laughter).
Nakajima: Well, yup, you must have, right?
Kawamori: Yup yup.

04:39 Alto trying to do something
Nakajima: Alto at this time was still quite cool.
Kawamori: “Still cool, huh?” So when did he (stop being cool)?
Nakajima: hm…(a few episodes later?) but it was at this point that I started thinking…’hm…although he’d been cool right from the start, when he first met Ranka, what’s happening now…?’
Kawamori: True. Although he keeps going to save [Ranka] from every little thing.
Nakajima: You’re right…so I wonder why I started thinking that way…
Kawamori: Perhaps him helping Sheryl is where you don’t approve.
Nakajima: Ah, that might be it. I might just be jealous.

05:15
[The person who drew the Zentradi was really excited about it.]

05:45
Kikuchi: It was quite difficult actually, having this many Zentradi in a scene.
Kawamori: Because they’re so big, you had to be careful about the episode direction.
Nakajima: From our perspective here, they seem to be the same size as humans, really…
Kawamori: If you don’t have a valkyrie to compare them too, they sure do.
Kikuchi: So we’ve got a car there to give viewers a sense of scale.
Nakajima: Oh! I see, so that’s what it is!

It’s all a matter of scale…

06:15
Kawamori: And we put this shot in on purpose, for a sense of comparison.

06:20
Nakajima: This…really brings back memories of “First Mark” (??)
Kawamori: It does, doesn’t it?
Nakajima: And then we suddenly return to the school! I was like, “What?!”

6:35 Ai-kun, quarantine issues
Nakajima: At first, I didn’t know it was a vajra larva.
Kawamori & Kikuchi: Ah, really. Good. It worked!
Nakajima: When I realised it later, I wondered if it was ok that I didn’t know.
Kawamori: Well, if you had known, you’d have been nervous/worried about it.
Nakajima: Other people asked me: “You didn’t know!?”, I was like “No, I didn’t”
Kikuchi: We thought it’d be good if it could be seen as a lovable species.
Nakajima: I was thinking that I should act as if I was keeping a pet like a cat or dog – so that’s what you did.
Kawamori: I mean, if you’d known everything beforehand – there is no one who knows such things beforehand, so we thought that you’d act more naturally if you didn’t know.
Kikuchi: You can’t imagine all the things we did to make sure that none of the (voice) actors guessed things ahead of time.
Nakajima: But we really didn’t pick it all, you know. At each recording session, everyone would throw out their theories and speculation, but I don’t think there was anyone who got it (all).
Kawamori: It would have been difficult for anyone to guess everything, probably.
Nakajima: But actually, Nakamura did declare that Alto wouldn’t be attached to either of them in the end.
Kawamori: But I wonder if that’s because he was saying it to you (laughter)
Kikuchi: True, if it’s Nakamura, hm…
Kawamori: that’s what would happen, probably.
Nakajima: Oh?
Kikuchi (repeats): ‘Oh?’
Nakajima: As for me and Endou, we really had no idea. We were always saying ‘I really thought it would turn out this way!’.

Kikuchi: For us, you know, it was pretty difficult balancing the two of them. If we made one stronger, than we had to make the other stronger too.
[NB: I’m pretty certain they’re talking about Alto’s relationships/empathy with the respective girls here -karice]
Kawamori: But with regards to this, it’s not as if we worked on it with a particular conclusion in mind.
Kikuchi: True, we just focused on powering them up.
Nakajima: I have a question: do you ever not know how a story will turn out?
Kawamori: Well, rather than not knowing how a story will turn out, when we talk about it, instead of setting a goal, we say that we want to get to the other side of the “mountain”.
Kikuchi: The overall direction is somewhat set in stone-
Kawamori: The direction is determined, but the (final) answer lies on the other side of the mountain. Like, we’re climbing the mountain, and we know which paths we’re probably going to take. But the answer at the end of that-
Nakajima: is unknown…
Kawamori: The way I see it, not knowing 100% what’s going to happen actually ends up making it more interesting.
Nakajima: For me, from here on, I started asking all my senior co-workers some questions. And what ended up happening was that I’d change everything that I’d practiced at home. (laughter) So I’ve been wondering how it is for all of you who create this material, ever since this episode or thereabouts.
Kawamori: Hm…that’s a good point. If you prepare too much/set too much in stone, you can’t respond to other opinions. So we kind of leave it a bit raw, if you like.
Kikuchi: Even Yoshino (the writer) would discuss things with everyone, but what happens next might still be different.
Kawamori: We had a plan set out, but the attitude we had was probably something like ‘if it turns out exactly like that, we should stop right there’
Nakajima: Woah…!
Kawamori: Rather than gunning for perfection, we were after something unexpected, a little like what you might get in a live performance. It’d be more interesting if there was an accident or something. And we just happened to have a lot of staff like that.
Nakajima (laughs): So everyone was like that.
Kawamori: Sometimes, you get people who have to do things step by step according to a plan. It just so happens that we don’t have any staff like that this time.

10:00 scene with Sheryl and Alto
Nakajima: I didn’t expect a scene between these two here. It’s like there are a lot of threads running parallel to each other, and (why they’re all here is) not something you’d understand from the first viewing.
Kawamori: Ahh, yeah, it happens quite often now, ever since the start of the video age. The first time you watch something, if you compare it to watching it after you know what the conclusion is, or after you know some of the background setting, you can see it completely differently.
Nakajima: I agree, it’s completely different.
Kawamori: When you see plays and so on, different actors bring different things to their roles. But for TV and film, where that’s not possible, I like trying to create scenes that you’d look at differently the next time around.
Kikuchi: Like, we inserted lines of dialogue with two possible meanings,
Kawamori: and the first time you see the scene, you don’t know which of the two it is. Though perhaps we put a few too many of those in. (laughter)

10:50 Michel and Luca talking about the new fold pack
Nakajima: I love it whenever Michel-kun comes on.
Kawamori: Then next time, let’s put you with Michel
Nakajima: Well, I’m a fan of Michel-kun.
Kawamori: I see…then let’s think of some ways to have you appear with him.
Nakajima: Yay!
Kikuchi: he (Michel) does have some good points after all.

Pretty cool, huh?

11:20
[The eye catches are pretty amazing – the staff worked hard at them.]
Kikuchi: Kawamori was pretty unreasonable though.
Nakajima: He was?
Kikuchi: Yes, like, just telling them “Please make one” and leaving it at that
Kawamori: Usually I have them make it, then take a look and ask them to change a little bit here and there. It’s better this way, because there’ll be a bit of variation that way.
Nakajima: I’m just stuck on the idea that you were unreasonable.
Kikuchi: You see, if he didn’t do that, then it’d become just another job for everyone. Like, they’d just look at the episode, pick something out and go ‘how about that one?’.
Nakajima: So, you wouldn’t get anything unexpected?
Kawamori: Precisely. You see, if there’s no sense of ‘Deculture!’, then it’s not Macross
Nakajima: Ah, of course. ‘Deculture!’

12:15 Alto in action
Nakajima: I like this scene quite a lot.
Kawamori: He really does quite a lot.
Nakajima: Now that you mention it…
Kikuchi: But well, his wishy-washiness is what people remember.
Kawamori: For some reason, that seems to be how most people characterize him.
Nakajima: Why is that, I wonder… But really, this is a great scene. He’s not directly fighting against them, but…what is it…
Kikuchi: If you think about it, Alto was the most proactive protagonist that season.
Kawamori: you could say we were aiming for Basara levels.
Nakajima: When you put it that way, yes, totally! He’s actively fighting, after all.
Kawamori: He fights, and makes quite a few other contributions. But in the end, the appeal of the two songstresses was too great [i.e. everyone was focused on them so forgot about what Alto actually did/tried to do!]
Nakajima: That kinda makes me happy.

Kawamori: About the different kinds of Queadluuns, in previous Macross series, male Zentraedi were the ones piloting them. But thanks to certain adult circumstances…(we added women too)
Nakajima (giggles): Thanks to ‘adult circumstances’, hm…

13:55 Ranka’s grand entrance
Kawamori: Ah, she’s here she’s here.
Kikuchi: Never thought we’d have to do (this kind of descent)
Nakajima: …Will…she be alright?!
Kawamori: At first, we’d talked of her being in the palm of the Valkyrie, but of course, that’d be impossible
Kikuchi: Everyone was opposed to it
Nakajima: If she’s in the palm of the Valkyrie…
Kawamori: Of course they’d be annoyed. And if you look carefully, she’s got a seat belt on.
Nakajima: What what?
Kikuchi: Around the waist
Nakajima: So she was wearing a seatbelt…!
Kawamori: If you don’t look carefully, you won’t catch it.

You can actually see this a bit later in the video

Nakajima: This catch phrase was…a bit of a challenge! At first, I wondered what in the world it was. (laughter) I asked if it was like Sheryl’s “Listen to my song!” and was lightly told “Yup!
Kawamori: Going back to the line, it was actually “Please listen to my song” (“watashi no uta wo kiite!” following Sheryl’s “watashi no uta wo kike!!”) but we wanted something different from Sheryl’s. So let’s use “embrace”! And “everyone” and “the galaxy” got added after that.
Kikuchi: It expanded just like that. “Everyone, let’s embrace” didn’t feel like enough, so we added “to the ends of the galaxy!” Like, people kept saying that it didn’t have enough of a punch. (laughter)
Nakajima: “Let’s embrace”…’embracing’ has the nuance of “let’s cherish each other”, right? But it’s very Ranka-ish.
Kawamori: There’s a bit of duality, right, it could be “embrace me!” or “everyone, let’s embrace each other”

[The commentators then go into a little discussion about Ranka’s dance moves. Takahashi, one of the two character designers, worked as the animation director for the sequence, and he really copied down all the dance moves perfectly. At the time, Megumi-chan had not even performed the songs on stage – she’d only been practicing the choreography.]

Kawamori: At during the concert, you stood on the palm of the valkyrie, huh?
Nakajima: I did, I did.
Kawamori: Could you see (?), when you were up there?
Nakajima: Yup, I could, from behind. I was super happy. All the fans were really like the Zentradi, roaring away!
Kawamori: Real-life versions, huh?
Nakajima: It was a wonderful feeling (performing up there).
Kikuchi: So it would have been.

I really thought they’d have something to say about Alto’s characterization here, but…

17:28
Kawamori: Ah, he’s here he’s here
Kikuchi: Speaking of (Yasaburo), is it true that he appeared in your dream?
Nakajima: Yes, it’s true.
Kikuchi: What happened?
Nakajima: Ah, you don’t know?
Kikuchi: I haven’t heard (the details).
Kawamori: Well, it was on your blog, wasn’t it?
Kikuchi: Ah! I see!
Nakajima: Well, Yasaburo suddenly asked me to marry him.
Kikuchi: Ohh!!
Nakajima: He proposed to me.
Kikuchi: How did he ask?
Nakajima: “Please marry me.” (Boku to kekkon shite kudasai)
Kawamori & Kikuchi: Ohhhh…
Nakajima: So I said, “is it ok to marry someone I don’t love?”
(laughter)
Nakajima: Then he replied “It’s ok if love develops after marriage.” And it ended as I was contemplating that.
(Ahhh)
Nakajima: Actually, Yasaburo is my type of guy.
Kawamori: Really? Which parts?
Kikuchi: That you can’t tell what he’s thinking from his face?
Nakajima: Yeah, something like that. He’s quiet, but it’s like he’s hiding a black heart.
(laughter)
Nakajima: A nice person, but it feels like there’s something there
Kawamori: Ah, that’s what you mean.
Nakajima: Yeah, I really liked him.
Kawamori: I feel like I’ve been let into a nice secret.
Kikuchi: like, he has two faces.
Kawamori: that’s one way to put it.
Nakajima: Like, there’s a gap between his character and how he looks.

[Kawamori actually likes asking people about their dreams. He’s also fascinated with the idea that you can found out some things about your future from them, through a professional dream reader. Megumi-chan has had dreams with Ranka in them too, and has even talked with her in them. About trifling things, but the interesting part is that “it’s my own voice”. (laughter)]

19:50 The gorgeous sunset and Nekko Nikki
Kikuchi: The atmosphere is is just fantastic.
Nakajima: It is, isn’t it? Like, full of happiness.
Kawamori: At first, it was meant to be Aimo, but after I listened to ‘A Cat’s Diary’ (Neko Nikki), I thought it’d be nice and switched it
Kikuchi: yeah, (Aimo) didn’t really match.
Nakajima: ‘A Cat’s Diary’ was the ending for episode 11, wasn’t it? I was wondering just where it would be used in the show, so I was really happy to see this ‘date’ scene.
Kikuchi: Yeah, it’s good that it’s used for this ‘date’ scene, or rather, it’s a cute scene, so ‘A Cat’s Diary’ is just perfect.
Kawamori: The ending for the 11th episode was actually going to be Aimo, but after watching it, we just couldn’t [let Ranka’s hope alone. *I really can’t catch this! -karice]
Nakajima: ‘A Cat’s Diary’ really is a strange song, isn’t it? There is an air of loneliness about it, but there’s also happiness.
Kawamori: it’s a cute song
Nakajima: And here their cheeks are also rather pink. But whether its because they’re blushing, or because of the sunset…
Kawamori: Either way, it’s a beautiful scene

21:10
Kawamori: I really wanted to have just one long cut of the valkyrie floating in the sky, and that’s why we ended up with something to put in the ending.

21:28
Kawamori: This…really broke apart something that seemed to be going really well, huh?
Nakajima: It’s like, it just doesn’t go the way you might want.

Dun dun dun…!

21:58
Nakajima: It becomes somewhat suspenseful from here on, doesn’t it?
Kikuchi: (Laughs) and everyone just got a little bit excited
Kawamori: The Macross…but you know, I was afraid that everyone would get the wrong impression, and be annoyed when the next episode didn’t turn out like they expected.
Kikuchi: but here, we had to put this silhouette out here.
Nakajima: I really did get the wrong impression.

I’m glad they did something a little different.

22:28 And the ending sequence:
Nakajima: And hearing “DYRL?” here…brought tears to my eyes.
Kawamori: It really works, doesn’t it? I’m glad we tried it, because if we’d gone with the flow, it’d have ended up being really similar to the first Macross ending…
Nakajima: So it was just something that just happened to be there?
Kawamori: Yup, there just happened to be this long cut (of a valkyrie floating in the sky – see above), about 5 seconds long. So we decided to have it repeat throughout the ending.
Nakajima: Wow.
Kikuchi: it was a really fresh idea.
Kawamori: It was something we thought of just at that point.
Nakajima: It really is cool, having “DYRL?” and this floating valkyrie.
Kawamori: With it just floating on forever, huh?

Nakajima: Really makes you forget all the things you wanted to talk about.

Nakajima: But this really is an incredibly important episode for Ranka, isn’t it?
Kawamori & Kikuchi: Definitely.
Kawamori: It’s the last one where she’s just really happy. Although they’re alright until halfway through the next episode.

About karice
MAG fan, amateur translator and political scientist in training. I also love musicals, photography, travel and believe it or not, the game of cricket. よろしく!

25 Responses to (Summary/Translation) Macross Frontier Episode 12 Staff/Cast Commentary

  1. Matts says:

    Loved these commentaries as usual! After reading Megumi’s dream I think I became a RankaxYasaburo shipper. I know, Megu isn’t Ranka and the dream didn’t include her, but something about the idea just made me smile so much. I imagine Alto making wierd faces when they go on a double-date… haha I’m probably the only YasaRan fangirl now, at least going by my search on pixiv.
    Yasaburo is Megumi’s type of guy too, is there any information if she’s dating anyone? Her comments make me love her more everytime.

    Also, thanks for trying to clean up the Shaloom mess all the time! A lot of credit goes to you guys, I imagine it must be frustrating at times. You and others, like Gubaba, helped a lot in that I can understand Macross Frontier with it’s characters a lot more. Before reading some of the interviews and discussions on AS and MW I had my ups and downs with Ranka’s character, but I can say that I love both the TV and movie versions know and feel that yes, they are essentialy the same, difference is that Ranka seems to have grown in the movies from where she was in the TV series. I’ve been a fan of Macross for almost 20 years now but this was the first time I actively got to follow the events within the fandom, albeit deciding to not partake in the discussions themselves.

    On a side note: I wanted to comment on a certain blog several times because google kept on directing me there whenever I searched for SnT or Ranka, but didn’t bother after someone tried to talk some sense into them and got yelled at. I was surprised and glad to see you there and saved the discussion just in case, because it was interesting until they decided to go the usual route of “Oh, she must like Sheryl more she’s here to hate”… It was funny because I remember you and I think Xard having almost the exact same debate with a Sheryl-fan last year on ghostlightning’s blog. Why people are blinded so much that they miss the point is something i will never get. Ah well, maybe in a few years people will stop going into defense mode when someone points out something they are wrong about, especially when it has nothing to do with who they like or ship. And I’m typing this here because the owner of that blogs asked to “take it somewhere else”. If it bothers you, please, edit my post, I won’t take offense! Just giving you a huge heads up here!

    Like

    • karice says:

      LOL. That would certainly be an interesting fanon possibility! (If only because Alto’s horrified reaction would be hilarious!)

      Yasaburo is Megumi’s type of guy too, is there any information if she’s dating anyone?

      Not that I’ve heard of – but I don’t really follow her that closely. If anyone in the English-speaking fandom would know, it’d probably be Xard ^^;

      Hm…true, what’s happening now seems to be part of the legacy of the Shaloom mess, magnified by a few other mistranslations from other sources. I think Gubaba’s taken the brunt of it, which really is just a horribly ungrateful reaction from the fandom considering all the work he had to do to debunk Shaloom’s mess. Though I guess that, to certain factions, it seems like we’re ‘trying to steal away the only thing that is keeping them hopeful’ (about whatever it is they’re hopeful about), so I can understand the ire to some extent. I just hope they get over it so that we can actually talk about the show and the characters without ‘shipping’ being injected into the discussion all the time.

      But I’m glad to know that you’ve found our efforts to ‘get the truth out’, so-to-speak, useful. Even if just a handful of people appreciate Macross more because of it, then it’s been worth it.

      Ah…hm…to be honest, I didn’t do the best job of staying away from that touchy subject and just focusing on the point I wanted to make about Kawamori being consistent. Perhaps I should just edit some of those erroneous ‘information’ websites and be done with it, because I don’t want to sound patronizing, and explaining Kawamori’s approach and what it means almost inevitably entails sounding patronizing.

      LOL – for nostalgia’s sake, I hunted down that discussion on GL’s blog myself a few nights ago. We were actually talking about something slightly different there (it was focused more on how much stead audiences should put into ‘author input’), which reflects the different beefs that AxS and AxR fans tend to have about Frontier. Though what you said about people being ‘blinded so much that they miss the point’ is spot on.

      Ah well, maybe in a few years people will stop going into defense mode when someone points out something they are wrong about, especially when it has nothing to do with who they like or ship.

      I sincerely hope so too! Though by that time, it might be too late for me, since I can’t see myself discussing Macross for too much longer unless they come out with another addition to the franchise… ^^;

      As for that last bit – no worries, and thanks for the heads up! I feel like I should follow you and retreat to being a lurker – it would save me heaps of time!

      Like

      • Matts says:

        One can always hope. Though I still remember when I was reading one of Crusader’s entries back in the day, he was discussing Frontier, made a comment on 7 coupled with a picture of Mylene and Gamlin as newly weds, and when I read the comments someone just HAD to mention something like “You know there is a picture with Basara instead of Gamlin, right?”. I remember my mind going blank for a moment and than thinking to myself “Oh My God, this is Still going on?” (^_^);

        As for some still waiting for an alternate ending or OVA for the TV series, and on both sides to boot… after Megaroad-1, Zero, and even 7, the Frontier trio has it pretty good. I don’t see Ranka as a looser, I don’t think Alto was the best guy for her, at least not in the long run. Mao moved on, Ranka will too. She gained a lot etc. I’m also certain she’ll have her best friends back eventualy. And what if people keep waiting for future canon and then Kawamori pulls a Megaroad-01 on Ranka too? Now that would get people really upset, I’d just rather Frontier’s story ends here. A basic outline of events is fine, but no more idols going missing forever and ever.

        I still think you were being as fair as one can get in this kind of discussion, the subject is probably not worth pushing, but from the first few posts I didn’t think they would completely misunderstand and take offense.

        I’m still greatfull you always try, so please, don’t give up! \(^_^); Shaloom’s ghost needs to go away, there are other ways to love a character than grasping at straws, or more like thin air.

        And for the record, not only did Ranka not get the short end of the stick as far as Macross characters go in the story and with the fans, there are fandoms where people have a lot more to deal with than regular character bashing. Snape-fans still talk of the days before DH when the idea that Snape had any sort of connection to a certain character was banned from discussion on one of the major Harry Potter boards. How can you ban discussion on a theory with an unfinished book series, this is something I’ll never get.

        Like

      • karice says:

        *rolls eyes* Surely there isn’t a debate about some of the triangles – e.g. the original? Or even the Zero one? That said, Kawamori effectively ‘mastering’ how best to use his approach – to keep the ending of the triangle under wraps until Sayonara no Tsubasa – may end up being a double-edged sword, in that it’ll be the main reason debates about Frontier’s ending will continue…

        True true. I don’t want another ending / OVA just in case they take away what I see as the perfect ending! Hm…I don’t agree with your opinion that a relationship with Alto wouldn’t have been a good thing for Ranka, but the development of their characters would probably have gone in a different direction had Kawamori et al decided to go down that path. The ending to the triangle fits perfectly with the character arcs for each of the main characters – Frontier would have been a very different story otherwise…

        there are other ways to love a character than grasping at straws, or more like thin air.

        I really wish there were more fans like Xard on all sides of the fandom. Fans who aren’t just focused on shipping, and who realise that the characters they love have both good points and things they have to work on, but who love them all the same and actually appreciate the complexity that is introduced as a result!

        Snape-fans still talk of the days before DH when the idea that Snape had any sort of connection to a certain character was banned from discussion on one of the major Harry Potter boards.

        Don’t tell me…the connection with Lily? Really? That was banned? Insane! I’m glad I was never a big follower of that fandom!

        Like

  2. Matts says:

    Ah, I phrased that wrong, I meant that the way the story and the character arcs were built up, them ending up wouldn’t have been the best result for either of them. If AxR had been the plan, Kawamori and co. could have written the story that way too.

    I feel they had chemistry and potential, but Ranka seemed like a girl who needed to break out of her shell and Alto didn’t seem to be helping with that. I left the idea open, but this was something that bugged me from the start. It culminated with Alto asking Ranka to sing in episode 20, Ranka finally taking a step and leaving in 21, and when Alto made his speech in episode 23 it didn’t come as a surprise (and I kept hoping he wouldn’t really have to kill her). I would have accepted an AxR ending, but it would have been strange.
    What really interested me in Frontier wasn’t the shipping, but the indivual stories and how the three connect and grow, if either girl ends up with Alto, that would aslo be a part of this. I wanted to see more of Sheryl and Ranka’s friendship too and got my wish granted with the movies. in the end, I’m satisfied.
    I enjoy AxR fanon a lot too, I really enjoyed some of the discussions I read on the Ranka-fan dominated boards while they were active (ignoring the few infamous boarders). Sadly most of those people are gone. This is why I still bother reading some entries and new blogs, but, alas, I’m still waiting for the era of peace to come. (^_^);

    The reason I love Macross is that each time a new story comes out it gives me a different experience, they all have a different atmosphere, yet still manage to keep core elements like communication intact. The love triangles never dissapointed me either, Lucy was never a contender in Plus (sadly) and i accept Myung, and I think that the outcome of 7 and D7 was completely in place too, it was a crazy ride but made sense to me.

    And back to the commentaries, they are a nice read because they add to the finished work, something to look forward too and something the other stories didn’t have at the time. I always wondered why they picked Neko Nikki for the scene in this epsiode because it’s an overly cute song, but they are right, it fits so much better than Aimo.

    Yep, they said even the idea that Lily would talk to him seemed like an impossible idea to some. The HP fandom is scary and this is something that really won’t go away anytime soon, not with Pottermore and JKR adding new information there. While I don’t have major issues with her I’m glad Kawamori has a different approach to Macross.

    Like

    • karice says:

      Ah. We basically agree on that then ^^

      I do disagree with this though:

      but Ranka seemed like a girl who needed to break out of her shell and Alto didn’t seem to be helping with that.

      Especially at the start of the series (and movies), Alto really encouraged her to go for what she wanted. The scene that stands out in my mind is the one where they meet at Griffith Park, and he tells her that “You’re right, it’s impossible…if you keep asking yourself whether you can or not”. He was basically conveying to her that she needed to decide for herself, and to actually do it rather than keep doubting herself. Even in episode 17 (just before her concert), he seemed to let her decide whether she should sing or not. I’d argue that he helped her develop quite a lot as a person.

      However, it was also around that time (from that concert) that their interactions started becoming detrimental to Ranka (for Alto, I think his relationships with both the girls were built around something rather detrimental UNTIL this point – although they also had a few good effects in terms of his development). By this, I mean the fact that he didn’t understand – and didn’t try to understand – what was wrong when Ranka refused to sing – I think that his emotional density/immaturity was a significant factor here. Not that Ranka is herself without fault, since she never shared the fact that she could feel the pain of the Vajra’s deaths – no one knew, except perhaps Brera. So, I would say that, Alto helped her break out of her shell to a certain extent. However, she needed to go further than most people were willing to let her go, Alto included. But I’m not sure that anyone in the series (other than Brera) would have been ready to let her do that, Ozma and the people of the Quarter included.

      I want some of the AxR fans to come back too, to bring a bit of well-reasoned balance to the fandom. However, I do sometimes wonder if the crowing of the AxS fans after the films came out has something to do with their disappearance…?

      they are a nice read because they add to the finished work

      I think so too, which is why I translate them. But there are some people who continue to argue that ‘the work should just speak for itself’, so all these ‘word of god’ additions should have no bearing on the interpretations of the audience. What I find interesting though is that there are clear records of people coming up with interpretations in line with what’s revealed in the commentaries (e.g. about Alto) at the time that the series was airing on TV!

      Ah well, the little things like finding out how certain characters were created, or how certain songs were chosen, are really fun too ^^

      Good grief. I can’t imagine the fallout after the final book came out… I’m also a little annoyed that JKR decided to lay out the futures of her characters, because, unless she wants to write more stories, I think it would have been nicer to leave it to the fans to imagine. Well…within reasonable limits, or course…

      Which is why I totally love Kawamori’s approach myself – almost anything goes!

      Like

      • Matts says:

        Ah, I loved that scene! I think I tend to focus too much on the latter half of the show on how I saw Alto and Ranka’s relationship.

        Fans leaving might be due to lack of anything new to talk about. Even some of the Sheryl-fans seem to be gone. A lot of people probably moved on to the next ship or just don’t have anything to add to the conversation. MyAnimeList has it’s casual viewers adding comments when they watch the show and it’s pretty quiet there.
        The Ranka boards are pretty much dead, the vocal people who stayed moved on to other places, like tumblr.
        I still lurk around because, like I said, I’m a fan in general and am looking forward to anything new. I’m still hoping against hope the musical gets a BD release.

        As for AnimeSuki… I miss DeX vs. Magnus a lot.

        I had a short conversation with a Sheryl-fan/AxS shipper a few months back. He was trying to remember a Kawamori comment, I looked up the interview for him and pointed to AS for more if he was interested. He thanked me and said the reason he never checked there was because of the board’s bad reputation. I’m pretty sure he meant both sides, since he also likes Ranka. Looking at AS today, seeing some random viewer asking a few simple questions and what it can stir up… I think a lot of people refreain from entering a discussion there or anywhere else because they are scared. I can’t rely blame them. (^_^);

        I find interviews interesting even when it comes to works I didn’t like, if they make me wonder just how the story turned out the way it did. Not to blame the creators but to understand. I can see how some people want to view works without knowing what the creators intents were, I don’t remember Crusader ever claiming to have based his interpretations on anything Kawamori said (might be wrong, been a long time), which is why I feel that they are fine even if I happen to disagree with a lot now in hindsight. Problems start when people pick what suits their needs and dismiss the rest. And you’re right, a lot of people would like what they could read here if they really took the time.

        It went on way after DH Part 2 came out. I’m still impressed how one of the Snape-centric LJ’s owner didn’t ban anon comments, there were 100+ tl;dr hate comments on most of the major entries she made.
        JKR is a very different kind of creator, even Pottermore has post-war information and we’re only on chapter 4 of CoS! I see a storm brewing in the distance. (^_^);

        Like

      • karice says:

        A lot of people do, especially as AS…

        True true. Though I also wonder if people are more likely to stay fans if they take a polarized view…i.e. if they just love one character (or two) to pieces.

        I’m still hoping against hope the musical gets a BD release.

        I hope that all the 30th anniversary stuff gets a BD release – especially the FB7 thing with Ozma and Fire Bomber!

        Really wish I could go to the valkyrie exhibit though…or that it will tour at least Asia perhaps?? One can always dream!

        As for AnimeSuki… I miss DeX vs. Magnus a lot.

        It would be very very nice to have DeX back…I wonder what happened to him.

        the reason he never checked there was because of the board’s bad reputation. I’m pretty sure he meant both sides, since he also likes Ranka. Looking at AS today, seeing some random viewer asking a few simple questions and what it can stir up… I think a lot of people refreain from entering a discussion there or anywhere else because they are scared. I can’t rely blame them. (^_^);

        Just how bad IS its reputation?! I guess I’m somewhat glad I didn’t know of it before I dived in…

        It’s sad that the new viewers who pop in once in a while and end up unintentionally setting off more fireworks because of the polarized views that exist there. Not exactly the most conducive environment for attracting new fans…

        I find interviews interesting even when it comes to works I didn’t like, if they make me wonder just how the story turned out the way it did. Not to blame the creators but to understand.

        Hm…to be honest, whilst I agree in principle, I usually find that I have too many interviews that I want to read, so I end up having to prioritize those series I actually really like, or just really want to understand better…

        I can see how some people want to view works without knowing what the creators intents were, I don’t remember Crusader ever claiming to have based his interpretations on anything Kawamori said (might be wrong, been a long time), which is why I feel that they are fine even if I happen to disagree with a lot now in hindsight. Problems start when people pick what suits their needs and dismiss the rest. And you’re right, a lot of people would like what they could read here if they really took the time.

        *grins* – I totally agree: that’s one of the biggest problems with the current Frontier fandom, though it also applies to other series. One of the other problems is when people start claiming that a piece of work is e.g. “Kawamori’s deconstruction of moe”, or they claim that a show hasn’t succeeded in doing something that it was never really doing in the first place (Guilty Crown is a pretty good example of this). Like…’what’? If they don’t want or try to find out what the creators’ intents were, then I don’t think it’s appropriate for them to say or imply that ‘(~~~)’s intent was such and such’.

        Wow…that is insanely stupid. I can’t remember the first time I read a theory about Snape and Lily, but I think it was between the 6th and 7th books – and I thought it fascinating. And that LJ owner really should have banned anon comments…how did she deal with it in the end?

        I’d been debating on joining Pottermore…if only to find out which house I’m in… (though I have a fair idea ^^; )

        Is JKR going for something like the Star Wars universe? Although, as she is the single author, it’d probably be more akin to JRR Tolkein and Middle-Earth… It just feels different though, for some reason…

        Like

  3. Matts says:

    (Sorry, I have a health condition and it got worse for a few days. Very late reply and sorry if i’m being a bother with my tl;dr’s.)

    AS seems to have a bad reputation mostly due to it’s past and how some people still bite. Well, I know what some of the AxR shippers are holding out for now, future clarification of canon in a new Macross story. Unless it’s AxS because then it’s still not canon. *shrug* It’s worth a go on both sides to try and have discussions, but when it’s not reaching, it’s best to just let go.
    DeX-kun is a mystery, he vanished from other boards too, way before SnT started airing in Japan.

    I found Crusader’s take interesting, I kept on having my ups and downs with Ranka, looking back, I can’t take it seriously anymore. I’m not bothered by it because, as far as I remember, it’s just personal opinion and he never said he knew for sure what Kawamori’s intents were, nor did he quote him on anything. But I might be wrong, the last time I read was at least a year ago. While I don’t mind theorizing simply based on the work, it can cause a lot of damage. Even simple theories based solely on what one person presumes can cause an effect in how readers perceive the character from then on and some won’t let go. It doesn’t help when others try to discuss the subject with information from outside the story and get shot down for it.

    Sometimes taking the work without the author’s notes can be a good thing, but Kawamori seems to be in-touch with his characters and I agree that most of the time viewers who say they disagree or disregard his words don’t notice how close their interpretations actually are.

    I can understand some fans to an extent. I had ships sunk, characters killed off or given the short end of the stick. Misconceptions about characters and stories. But I can move on or reflect on where I was wrong. Re-reading the old AS threads and taking every poster’s opinion into account would be a good start for newcomers, AS is great as an archive for the emotions that went on when the series aired. How fans reacted is really interesting and a lot of what people want to debate has already been discussed. But it’s a long-long read, it was easier to follow when it was on-going, not sure if people are willing to dive into it now.

    HP: One poster tried her best to take apart the “he was probably the bravest man I ever knew” line in tl;dr posts to prove that Snape was still a bad guy óand Harry was being uncertain because of the word “probably”. (^_^);
    The LJ admin didn’t ban anons and some non-anon users because she wanted to counter them in their arguments. She, her friends and regular visitors got a lot of stuff thrown at them over the years, now that DH 2 was out and they finally had JKR somewhat backing them up with how she said the movie nailed Snape’s story, they wanted to take on the character bashing.

    If you just want to get your House, you can click through the first few chapters, get the items on the shopping list, the wand and get to the sorting. Doesn’t take up much time. Pottermore is full of bugs and pretty boring, escpeacialy the games, maybe as more chapters come out (and they get more criticism) it’ll improve.

    Like

    • karice says:

      No worries, I’ve been a bit busy too – I hope you’re feeling much better! And really, comments are always welcome, although I may not always be able to reply to them promptly!

      I think I know who the worst culprits are…but I’m going to try to avoid ranting about them.

      Well, I know what some of the AxR shippers are holding out for now, future clarification of canon in a new Macross story. Unless it’s AxS because then it’s still not canon

      LOL – so true! But I really don’t think Kawamori will say anything in the future about them, even in the chronology. What’s he going to say, that Alto and Sheryl had a gorgeous little girl who went on to become a singer like her mother? So I guess the current situation will continue…I really wonder why they can’t just go “who cares about the story, I’ll just write fan fiction”!

      I agree – different fan theories can make the fan experience more enjoyable, by introducing another thing to find evidence for and debate. It just gets annoying when people start taking those fan theories too seriously and try to argue that that’s what the creators intended…when interviews etc clearly show that the creators were focused on other things.

      I find that most creators are generally in touch with their characters: they create individuals who react in generally predictable ways when faced with certain situations. Obviously, to a certain extent, viewers have to work in the opposite direction – we have to look at their actions and try to figure out what guides them. Which can create tension when some viewers like to insist that their interpretations are the correct ones…

      Re-reading the old AS threads and taking every poster’s opinion into account would be a good start for newcomers…

      (^_^;; ) I actually did that, back when we were doing the rewatch. That’s when I stumbled on what forms the basis of my current interpretation of Alto. I’ve probably got all the posts (and a few comments on random curiosity) still bookmarked somewhere – they were that eye-opening…

      ——

      er…ok…why do the haters want to waste energy doing something so pointless? Snape was NOT a nice person, not someone whom people should like as a person – JKR herself is very clear on this, IIRC. As a character, yes, he’s definitely one of the most interesting to try to analyze, but in terms of loving him as a person, or being friends with him? It’s probably impossible. Even though he did start caring for people on the ‘good’ side (at least according to what he told Dumbledore), it was a long journey, and for many years, he was incredibly spiteful towards both Neville and Harry, because of what happened to Lily. He was also a shocking teacher, in more ways that one, even though his skill with potions was probably unmatched. The one thing that saved him from being completely evil was his capacity to love – and the same applies for the Malfoys! But Snape obviously did a lot more – he had one of the most dangerous roles in the whole affair, and he stuck to it, and that’s why Harry’s choice of adjective makes perfect sense. As for ‘probably’…good grief, Harry knew A LOT of incredibly brave people! It’s not like anyone’s trying to say that Harry now thinks Snape was the ‘best’ person he ever knew, or that anyone should think that…or are they?

      Hm…I almost started a couple of days ago, but had to put it aside and do some work… (^_^; ) I’ll get to it, eventually…

      Like

      • Matts says:

        Thank you, my condition is probably permanent so my pain comes and goes but I’m better atm.

        I don’t think Kawamori will say anything either. I think the last Fire Bomber album released a year or two ago has information on Basara, but not much and I don’t think anyone translated the entire booklet. They probably would have if it confirmed anything significant. Maybe something like grandma-Mao, but even that seems unlikely at this point. Mao always wanted to see the world so becoming a scientist made sense, Sheryl and Ranka solved a conflict and probably went on to sing like Minmay. The most I can imagine is someone having a Sheryl or Ranka poster in their room. Though I would prefer a Kabuki Princess Alto for the giggles.

        Having just seen another shipping war/Sheryl-bashing start on tumblr I think that this will be around for a long, long time. Especially as long as people
        – keep posting hate under character tags/threads that others search for love, not hate and are rightfully annoyed;
        – think that anyone who points out that they misunderstood an interview or are mixing up facts is attacking them AND Ranka;

        Critisism would be fine, hate, no. And yes, this goes back to the fights people had on AS, confirmed by the original poster. I’ll probably ignore the tags for a while until it hopefully dies down again, the discussion that has been thrown up has been talked about and argued to death on AS and WeRememberLove, so I see no reason to get a headache again.


        I’m sure there are, but not in this discussion, it was about trying to demonize Snape to the point where some people started to argue that the “probably” was an expression of doubt from Harry on whether Snape was a brave man at all or not.

        A lot of good points and arguments have been made on the Snape-side, I’m non-apolegetic and like to view his life story as a whole to see how he became the mess he did and used Lily as his guiding light which changed him for the better without him wanting to or noticing at first. There are hints in the books that he got along with some people, but yes, he was not loveable and a shocking teacher, as you say. Others have written much, much better essays than what I could come up with in a few words so I’m leaving it at this. This is why I find Sirius and Lupin fascinating in their own rights too.
        I wonder if my views will change in 10 years time. It’ll be a fun experience.

        Good luck with Pottermore when/if you get to it, I hope you don’t end up having password problems like some of us. (^_^);

        Like

      • karice says:

        Many apologies for the incredibly late reply! Been a bit busy this past week… orz

        I’m sorry to hear that you have a condition…though I’m glad that you’re better!

        Though I would prefer a Kabuki Princess Alto for the giggles.

        lol. Can you imagine the fan reactions?! “OMG! Alto went back to kabuki?!”

        Having just seen another shipping war/Sheryl-bashing start on tumblr…

        Maybe I shouldn’t have googled that…reading it makes me feel like I’m killing my braincells…

        This is why I don’t ship. Shipping, to me, implies trying to base relationships on what people think is “best” for the characters instead of what actually happens in the show. It’s not that love can’t work like that (sometimes, people do recognise that a particular person does not bring out the best in them; or they choose career over love etc etc) – it’s just that every relationship is different. We’re not the characters, so we really shouldn’t try to impose our values and logic on them, or say that they should make the decisions we’d make if we were in their place. Of course, this applies not just to the decisions they make about relationships, but about everything else too.

        the discussion that has been thrown up has been talked about and argued to death on AS and WeRememberLove, so I see no reason to get a headache again.

        Personally, I feel that the discussion on AS and WRL is incredibly one-sided, largely because they’re dominated by people who interpret Ranka in an extremely negative way. It doesn’t exactly help, however, that the opposite side acts in pretty much the same way in their own little communities.

        orz…I guess hating on a character makes people feel better or something…?

        This is why I find Sirius and Lupin fascinating in their own rights too.

        This is a very very good point – though they’re my favourite characters, they certainly weren’t perfect. And very few people really explore what that means, whether in analysis or fanfic. Though I’ll have to admit that I’ve been spoiled…I chanced upon fernwithy several years ago, and have never really looked at any other fan creations since…

        LOL…I’ve already forgotten my password once and had to reset it!
        Ah well, four chapters in…that’s probably enough for a day!

        Like

  4. Matts says:

    Don’t worry, sometimes I can’t sit for days and it takes me a week to reply to e-mails.

    I tried giving that poster many chances but somehow I never got to read through any of her posts, I can read blocks of texts without any kind of punctuation and hate from others for some reason, but not these. When I saw her on tumblr and Sheryl-bashing, I just blocked her to not have to scroll through walls of text on my phone, since I use that more often than my laptop because of my condition. The reason I saw this new debacle is because two people I follow tried to reason with her and reblogged the post, so I ended up having to scroll through it anyway. (^_^;) It looks like they gave up, so if she keeps her word and writes her massive SnT bash post, I’ll probably get to dodge that, unless one of the Ranka-fans on my list reblogs it.

    I agree that discussions are one sided on AS and WRL, but the parts that the poster was upset about have been discussed from pretty much all ends, from the rabbid shippers to the very few moderate posters. I was really not into reading through it again, deliberately misunderstanding interviews and scenes, ignoring some changes while taking others out of context. I’d rather just re-read the SnT thread on AS. At least I finally get what she meant by “fated love song” all this time. I always thought Ranshe said “koi no uta” to Ranka because she was a small kid and telling her it was a mating song would be really silly, but correct me if I’m wrong on Aimo, this is just how I always interpreted the text, the Vajra being bugs and all.

    I rarely ship, I’m more interested in characters as individuals then couples, but when I do I don’t mind if they are not canon. I agree with you on how we impose ourselves and values in the characters, but if it doesn’t turn into hating other characters and lashing out at others for disagreeing, I can enjoy it. I have lots of non-canon pairings I love to this day. I still think the reason I had my issues with Ranka was more because of the shipping wars and some of her fans (and some AxS fans), not because of what she was like.

    The good part about being in the Macross fandom, liking characters, sometimes shipping in a non-vicious way is that while some people are mean, there are really nice ones too. I had a though summer, my condition got worse and these last past weeks were hard emotionally, so I took to tumblr and just posted pictures I found of different Macross series. I was checking my tags the other day starting with Sheryl Nome and saw that one of the guys I follow posted a new AxS AMV. I love his edits, but wasn’t feeling well so I thought I’d get back to it on another day. I read the description though and that’s when my heart skipped a beat. The video was dedicated to two people, one of them was me (with my tumblr name). I sobbed. (^_^;) Then I got myself together, turned on my laptop, watched it and thanked the poster. We only spoke maybe two times before, months ago. I’ve seen so much hate in the MF community these last couple of weeks that this was really uplifting. I’ve never had an AMV dedicated to me, so despite the pain my body went through this really lifted my spirit and I ended up watching Utahime again, taking pictures of some of my favorite scenes and making gif sets, something I haven’t done in a really long time. I finished the Sheryl ones, still have the Ranka gifs to work on.

    Welcome to Pottermore and it’s password hell! (^_^;) Me and the people I spoke to didn’t forget the passwords, I ended up writing them down and still took me 3 times when the site opened and 4 when the new chapters for CoS were added to get in. Did you get a wand and a House?

    I never got why people wanted Sirius and Lupin to be perfect heroes, I thought Lupin trying to run away from being a father was very much in character in book 7, I liked that Harry told him off and he got his act together. What I hated was him and Tonks getting killed off for parallels sake. Poor Teddy. I thought Lily, the other three marauders and Snape had fitting deaths because they were sad but also very much in place where and how they happened. Lupin and Tonks though, not really. Maybe I’ll change my mind in a few years.

    Like

    • karice says:

      It really sounds like a horrible condition to have…is there really little you can do?

      —-

      I really wonder if the tumblr mess inspired anything, for the debate has started again at AS too, with a new poster joining the mix. I really wish they’d stop – because there are some (mis)translations floating around that I’ll have to fix if they dig them up… *sighs*

      At least I finally get what she meant by “fated love song” all this time. I always thought Ranshe said “koi no uta” to Ranka because she was a small kid and telling her it was a mating song would be really silly, but correct me if I’m wrong on Aimo, this is just how I always interpreted the text, the Vajra being bugs and all.

      hm? I don’t really understand what you mean…what do you think Ranshe meant by “fated love song”?

      I can deal with non-canon too…though usually I just leave alone the series that end with my non-preferred pairings. It’s mostly because there aren’t many fanfic writers that I can bear to read, and I’m not one to write fanfics myself. I’d fair better with artists (and AMV editors, I expect), but I usually just move on to whatever series I want to look at next.

      Speaking of AMVs though – wow, that was really really nice of that person to dedicate that AMV to you. Would you mind sharing a link to it?

      —-

      LOL. So far, I’ve forgotten it just the once, and it’s been ok since then. Not that I’ve gotten very far, admittedly…I just got my wand the other day, and haven’t logged in again since!

      It always amuses me that some people prefer ‘perfect’ characters to flawed and thus interesting ones. One extension of this is that they glorify the characters they love and overlook their flaws, which occurs for all kinds of characters – and I think that many Harry Potter characters and the Frontier trio qualify. On the other hand, however, some people can also be very extreme about ‘loving characters because they fail’. In this case, they emphasize the flaws and disregard anything positive about them, in ways different from those that hate/dislike the character. It saddens me when I come across such readings, because many of the modern characters subjected to these interpretations are more complex than that.

      Like

  5. Matts says:

    It’s getting more and more likely that’s it’s interstitial cystitis/chronic bladder pain, which has no cure. The diagnosis means trying to make sure that it’s not something else, but my condition is slowly getting worse. Right now I’m on my 5-6th therapy, long use of antibiotics and trying to strengthen my immune system, but it’s not really working. I’m still hoping that I might wake up one morning with the pain gone for good, but getting ready for the worst. Which would mean that I’ll have to work from home, something I really, really don’t want.

    Re-watching the last episode now, I always thought Aimo was a mating song, and that maybe by saying koi no uta, Ranshe was being a bit romantic in how she explained it to Ranka at the time, since she was a small child. What I didn’t get was how the poster always referred to Aimo as a “fated love song” that was meant to be Ranka’s but was given to Sheryl in the movie. When she posted that long rant, I got it reblogged on my dashboard, skimmed through it and finally got that she thinks Vajra find their fated other with it and because of this, Ranka was originally meant to be with Alto as her fated one… kind of… yeah, I disagree but wanted to ask you if I was wrong and she was right. (^_^;) I don’t mind correcting myself.

    The AMV: http://lussuriioso.tumblr.com/post/30853007617/song-she-will-be-loved-by-maroon-5
    There’s sound on the tumblr site, so you should turn that off. In the comments I’m hoshikira.

    The new shipping war gives me the feeling that people should really read all the old threads before trying to argue on AS. Posting an opinion is fine, but this is another “Let’s fight for our favorite” posting game that I’m not really into reading again. I have to add that I disagree with many of the counter arguments, but if I ever register on AS I’m not going to post on characters. I’m afraid of getting shot down for liking Ranka. And I’m a huge Fire Bomber/M7 fan. And I like Macross II. And Wendy Rider songs. And Minmay. And I know the lyrics to all her TV songs and still listen to them. Yeah, I’m… a fangirl.

    Agreed though I don’t mind reading these opinions posted, the problem comes when people don’t let others have a say in it or directly go against facts with whatever they want to be the one and only truth.

    Like

    • karice says:

      Apologies for the late reply. 20 is FINALLY done…and now I have to catch up on all the other things I put off in the meantime!

      —-

      I’m sorry to hear that…it looks pretty complicated (what with various treatment methods working for some but not for others – I googled and read a bit about interstitial cystitis) and I hope that you do find a treatment that works for you!

      Re-watching the last episode now, I always thought Aimo was a mating song, and that maybe by saying koi no uta, Ranshe was being a bit romantic in how she explained it to Ranka at the time, since she was a small child. What I didn’t get was how the poster always referred to Aimo as a “fated love song” that was meant to be Ranka’s but was given to Sheryl in the movie. When she posted that long rant, I got it reblogged on my dashboard, skimmed through it and finally got that she thinks Vajra find their fated other with it and because of this, Ranka was originally meant to be with Alto as her fated one… kind of… yeah, I disagree but wanted to ask you if I was wrong and she was right. (^_^;) I don’t mind correcting myself.

      Ah, I see what you mean now. Hm…I mean, I’ve never really thought too deeply about Aimo, to be honest. Though it would be interesting to see what meaning Kawamori and Kanno encoded in those lyrics (Kanno wrote them, but I assume Kawamori told her what the song meant)…I might try and track down a bit more about it when I have the time.

      But wrt that poster and the idea that Aimo being Ranka’s entailing that she and Alto are meant for each other…well, no, I don’t agree with that.

      If anything, after the films, then it’s Ranka and Sheryl who are meant for each other, non? ( ̄▽ ̄)

      —-

      That’s a pretty cool AMV – I just didn’t expect it to be so short!! Really makes me want to go hunting down some more AMVs though…particularly Frontier ones ^^;

      NOOOOO…!! I really don’t have the time for that!!

      —–

      I have to add that I disagree with many of the counter arguments, but if I ever register on AS I’m not going to post on characters. I’m afraid of getting shot down for liking Ranka. And I’m a huge Fire Bomber/M7 fan. And I like Macross II. And Wendy Rider songs. And Minmay. And I know the lyrics to all her TV songs and still listen to them. Yeah, I’m… a fangirl.

      Well, at least it looks like it’s dying down now, though I’m not sure I follow the reasoning behind the ceasefire. Interesting that the advice about ‘know your stuff’ coming from that poster though, given what’s happened in the past…

      And LOLs…Tak got you to join AS somehow? Don’t get sucked in too deep! To be honest though, the only thing that is likely to get you ‘shot’ (so-to-speak), is liking Ranka. A range of people like everything else you like, but all the people who like Ranka and/or try to defend her are always subjected to the derision of one particular poster (I think you can guess who I mean). Though a lot of other posters have no qualms about joining in…it’s just tiring. But if you can stay away from that, AS is kinda fun…most of the time. ^^

      Like

  6. Matts says:

    I hope something will turn up that works, somedays I’m fine/almost fine, sometimes it’s terrible.

    I’m glad you got the episode 20 commentary up. Kind of fits my fangirl mood, I just found my one and only volume of Macross Ace and it’s the one that has the Klan story adaptation from Nyan Dra 4. Love the art and the ending is so cute/heartbreaking.

    I didn’t think too much into Aimo, just thought that the koi no uta bit having a double meaning as in mating song was logical with them being giant space bugs, and it would have been a nice touch for a conversation between a mother and her daughter. But when Utahime came out some started complaining about how the song was “given” to Sheryl and then this poster came up with this “fated love song” bit that I never heard before.

    I wanted to post on that to tell the new member that I think the problem is that she came to the discussion late, without reading what’s been said for the last few years. I’ve been lurking there since around early 2009, so I know who’s who. I don’t think a person has to watch everything Macross to be a dedicated fan, I don’t understand 70% of what is being said in mecha topics, doesn’t take away from my enjoyment nor do I think it makes me less of a fan.
    Unfortunately it seemed like she only cared about a certain person’s comments while the others didn’t take any of it seriously, so I gave up. She seemed nice enough, I’d be sad to see her scared off.

    I also have a strong premonition that Kawamori said no such thing that was stated there in the episode 25 commentary, but I’ll wait until your done with it, since I don’t have the tracks and my japanese is far from translating conversations like these. But I also think that the salute bit is kind of pointless after SnT, when Alto does that to Ranka, and then both girls, but w/e. (^_^;)

    Haha, the reason I registered was to post in the FB7 topic, since nobody ended up answering the poster about the existence of the Cross Over live’s song and that May’n’s voice is fantastic with people like Fukuyama or Hironobu Kageyama (that Butter-fly duet is pure awesome). I feel like advertising these whenever I get the chance because good songs and singers need more support.
    And then I got the invite, so why not. (^_^) Don’t worry, pretty sure I’ll leave the character threads alone if it’s about the Frontier cast.

    Like

    • karice says:

      Nyan Dra…*sighs* my copy of the manga is still with a friend in Japan….can’t wait until Nov when I should be able to go pick it up!

      ah…so that’s what happened there. Not really surprising, though, all things considered.

      You’ve been lurking around AS since 2009…!! Didn’t you get tired of all the circular arguments, especially after the 2nd film came out in Japan?

      I still have no idea what she heard in the 25th commentary to be honest. I think they were talking about performing at the Budoukan during the salute scene…(^_^;; ) And yeah, I still can’t believe that people are arguing about it after such an obviously definitive end…

      Ah, so that’s what happened. I must admit, I don’t think I’ll ever watch Macross 7, so I might not ever be able to appreciate the music there. But you never know, that FB7 film might change things. I wonder how long it’ll be in cinemas…knowing my luck, it’ll disappear right before I get there!

      Like

  7. Matts says:

    Sorry, lot’s of pain and lots of other worries, so I didn’t have time to reply.

    I still have a list of Macross related books I need to buy, Nyan Dra being one fo them, I was happy to find a chapter of it in Macross Ace, the artwork is so good and it’s a real treat that the pictures are larger than in the collected volume. I love the artist’s twitter too, Kikuya-san posts a lot of her funny doodles there and I fonud a picture with an older Alto with short hair the other day! (And a doodle of Sheryl pulling on Alto’s ponytail which just comes off…)

    The circular arguments got tiring sometime after the movie started airing in Japan, but what really got me into just skipping posts on not just AS, but other boards and blogs was the “I don’t hate Sheryl, BUT…” line of reasoning. Especially when some would start dismissing her actions, most notably the end of episode 20. Same went for Ranka after I made up my mind about her, though a lot of the reasoning behind the hate for her got me annoyed even before that.

    My friends and I were passionate about the characters too when we would discuss MF over lunch, but we always ended up laughing it off in the end, seeing so much arguing online was always strange. It was interesting while the triangle was open, I also think there could be more said about characters, mostly Ranka, but not in the current enviroment, nor in a place that is biased towards her. Maybe in a couple of years.

    M7 is everything Sukehiro Tomita shows for young kids are known for, and I have seen a lot of them growing up. It feels “right” to me because I can immidiately tell he was behind it. Tomita had wokred on Macross, but I think his strength is in kids’ shows.

    What makes it Macross, communication with others, alien forces, life on a giant colony, added backstory to the protoculture, these are all there but they are over shadowed by the atmosphere that is typical of Tomita-shows. I completely get why a lot of people hate it. It’s a really wierd mix.

    And the music is corny to no end, much the same way the story is.🙂 I love them all, but they grew on me, like old Minmay songs. The one that really stands on it’s own is Angel Voice, but that’s a Kanno song, no surprise there.

    FB7 might be good if it’s a condenced version of 7’s story, an informative summary would be great for those who want to skip the show but feel uneasy that they are leaving out a part of Macross history. And the trailer was pretty awesome, with Sheryl and Ranka singing Totsugeki Love Heart, I’m really hoping for a BD now.

    Like

    • karice says:

      Apologies from here too. I have just finished marking my last essay \(^o^)/ Now just have to finalise and release them!

      —-

      I’ve got a list too – the latest one I picked up was the huge guide book for the original Macross, which was offered as an ebook until Oct. The sad thing, of course, is that I don’t even have time to read all of the ones I’ve bought, much less any additional ones…oh well…

      It’s great that you’re adding your thoughts on AS, because I know you’ll have some interesting views to add (which are already showing up in what you’ve posted so far!). I wonder if any of the other stalwarts will join in this time – if they do, hopefully some of them are willing to be a bit more open-minded…

      FB7 might be good if it’s a condenced version of 7′s story, an informative summary would be great for those who want to skip the show but feel uneasy that they are leaving out a part of Macross history. And the trailer was pretty awesome, with Sheryl and Ranka singing Totsugeki Love Heart, I’m really hoping for a BD now.

      Turns out that that was precisely what FB7 was, huh? I do hope they put out a BD, b/c then I’ll be able to know what M7 was about without actually having to watch the whole thing!

      —-

      And a couple of things I didn’t want to post on AS…

      I hate that I can pick out where the fansub is off. It’s good that I know what they are saying, but on the other hand, it’s bothering me.

      I know exactly what you mean… Mind if I ask which sub you’re using?

      And I do hope you’re feeling better! Please don’t overdo it!

      Like

      • Matts says:

        Congrats to that, I have friends who teach and some, who are students, these are busy months. Post-summer hell, as some like to call it. (^_^);

        I’m feeling better now, but my condition goes from bad to good randomly. My doctor asked that I start writing a diary on when the pain comes and what kind of pain it is, because that varies too. I did this about a year ago, but gave up on it, because non of the doctors bothered to read it. So now I’m back to writing again.
        The good thing is that cranberries are supposed to make IC flares a lot worse and I don’t feel worse because of the capsules, so it might be that my immune system is failing, which can be repaired but will take a lot of time (a year, or more). I think I still have a long way to go.

        —–

        I watched CoalGirls’ release for the 3 versions of episode 1. They take subs from other groups and add them to the BD releases. The Deculture Edition had Lanka, William and something else for Gilliam, along with lot’s of mambo jumbo names and translations.
        For the rest I have Central Anime now. I don’t like the way they translated Klan’s line from the rooftop conversation, that is something I remember from the last re-watch. Sometimes I just pick up lines and think to myself that I would have phrased it some other way.
        I’m very grateful to Heibi and CA for doing M7 though, so I’m not going to complain on AS, I’ll just do my best to ignore what I think is off.

        I’m glad someone brought up the idea for a re-watch, I wanted to do this for some time now, Been reading some blogs and comments recently and went back to re-read older ones, and I thought that there was something off about some of the writings. They were usually too onesided, other times I was confused because shippers (both sides) would talk about scenes I didn’t even remember happening that way.

        It’s imposible to share my thoughts on the remaining Ranka “boards”, the people there made it clear they don’t care, so I picked AS, it’s an open board where I can post what I feel (even if some might end up not liking it) and not someone’s personal board/blog, where I would only get them angry because I disagree.

        Also nice that the other person watching is new to MF, so his opinions will be very different from mine. I’m able to watch the show and try to pick out the scenes I find relevant and interesting, since I’m not caught up in the excitment of what will happen next, nor am I just casually re-watching it for fun and/or emotions.

        —-

        When I read the news on ANN about FB7 and that the footage from 7 would be re-used, I figured that it would be a big recap. I’m hoping for a release too, I’d like to see the new scenes and how they put 7’s story together for a single movie.

        Like

      • karice says:

        Post-summer? They only have one period of hell a year?!

        Cranberries make IC flares worse…but you not feeling that meaning that your immune system might be failing…? That…really doesn’t sound all that good. Hang in there!!

        —–

        That’s exactly the problem I’ve found with the Frontier subs. None of them are perfect – not that I’ve ever found a perfect group for a series, gg’s Bakemonogatari may be the closest I’ve ever seen – but Frontier seems to have been hit with incredibly average ones. I’ve toyed with the idea of making my own subs, but have never gotten round to it, and probably don’t have the time…

        I’d love to try to watch it again myself, and to try and focus on Ranka this time (last time, I was a bit more focused on Alto)…but I may just have to content myself in reading what the two of you pick out.

        I’m not longer surprised, actually, that so many people tend to latch onto a particular couple and then don’t let go. ‘Shipping’ is like putting the blinkers on – you just don’t see anything else besides what is relevant to the ship. That’s all fine and good when the show is about romance in the first place, in which case its creators tend to focus on building one core relationship (at least, in my experience they do. Even when we’re talking about harem or reverse-harem setups). However, donning the shipping goggles is a sure-fire way to miss everything else that’s interesting, from the politics of the world in question to characterisation and even the development of other relationships.

        Like

  8. Matts says:

    Summer vacation is long, so that’s the part of the year they seem to dislike the most. Especially when the weather is still nice outside in September.

    In the case of IC there are certain foods and drinks (a lot, actually) that trigger flares, cranberry being one. So if things like cranberries, coffee, certain fruits etc. don’t trigger anything that most likely means that the problem is something different. Though if this current diagnosis is correct or not remains to be seen, the only way to find out is to go on with treatments and see if they help. When it comes to women’s health in this area, doctors can’t do much but experiment. I’ve talked to several women over the last 1 1/2 year and it doesn’t seem to matter where they are from, the problems are always the same.

    gg messes up a couple of shows I watched, like Aqurion EVOL. I didn’t like the show to begin with, I was expecting… something instead of just enjoying the fights. But the subs were so bad I decided to not go near gg again in the future.

    I watched Frontier with Lunar’s subs the first time I think, at least I seem to remember Galactic “Nymph” from that time.

    I’m trying to focus on all three mains, but find myself mostly looking at Sheryl and Ranka. Having watched the movies back to back not to long ago it really strikes me how much more could have been done with Ranka’s character. She is essentially the same girl as in the movies but hasn’t broken out of her shell yet and I keep getting the urge to shake her to say something. Sheryl is really straightforward until she gets sick, while Ranka gets really quiet after the ticket scene is episode 6. She works hard and smiles at work, but she can’t get over her feelings for Alto and why he lied.
    The scene where they fly with Alto at the end of episode 12 is a breather because she finally gets one of her non-awkward moments and laughs. While I feel sorry for Sheryl, who got left behind, it was nice to see Ranka being calm and cheerful again.

    It’s also interesting how people who don’t like Sheryl talk about how stuck up and mean she was for the first half at least, but after the first episode, all I see is kindness. Her confidence is a contrast to Ranka’s and she is not proud of herself for no reason, she climbed to the top from nowhere (or so she believes). Something she sees in Ranka as well and wants her to succeed.

    Like

  9. Pingback: For the record: Yack Deculture! | HOT CHOCOLATE IN A BOWL

  10. Pingback: Masterpost: On Anime ‘Writing’ Project | HOT CHOCOLATE IN A BOWL

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: